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PR/Mid Knot with Lighter vs without Lighter


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#1 Kilsong

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:31 PM

I used to use Mid Knot without burning the end mono with lighter as I firmly believed that the knot doesn't slip if made properly. 

I haven't had any problem  with Mid Knot for jigging.  However, my Mid Knot got loosened sometime  after casting poppers 

I asked other fishermen who use Mid Knot or PR knot whether they have any experience of loosened knot while popping. Their answers are usually NO.

I was wondering what I did wrong. I watched others to finish PR Knot or Mid Knot with half hitch knot as I do. I don't see any difference. 

When I fished in Southern Oman last week, I asked Mohammad, a fishing guide, to make a PR knot for me and I tested it for several hours. I didn't see the knott get loosened.  Now I realize that the only difference is I don't burn the end of mono and others burn it.

 

 

 



#2 jerome the belgian

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:50 PM

:)  :) you absolutely need a lighter



#3 Kilsong

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:11 PM

We are going to get Bouz Line Cutter. 

If you have a better suggestion, let me know.

 

 



#4 Kilsong

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

We are going to get Knot Assist Stick too

 

 



#5 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:09 PM

Kil , totally Hype . Pametfishermen would probably have said that,  with the amounts of turns you do with so much pressure provided by the bobbin there is no way that leader would slip off.

Like the PR or the FG knot , you start wit h one set of larger rounds on the leader , like 10-15 , followed by the 40 -50 short tight rounds .That is quite i bit of a pressure there. I have read else where that lightly sanding the leader provides more grip for the braided line.

 

Just food for thoughts , what do I know !

 

one more thought , tie one PR with the leader tag en buried or burnt & the second one without burning it. Load cycle it & check if the braking strength is the same & obviously if the leader slips .  


Edited by Anthony, 08 April 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#6 Kilsong

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

Anthony,

When I use Mid Knot for jigging, I don't have any problem. When I use short leader line for popping so that the knot is outside guides, I don't have any problem. 

But when the knot go though guide many times when casting, the half hitch knots on the mono starts to get loosened if I don't burn the end of mono line.

I even appied glue on the knot, but it was useless.   



#7 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

Anthony,

When I use Mid Knot for jigging, I don't have any problem. When I use short leader line for popping so that the knot is outside guides, I don't have any problem. 

But when the knot go though guide many times when casting, the half hitch knots on the mono starts to get loosened if I don't burn the end of mono line.

I even appied glue on the knot, but it was useless.   

Kil I totally agree with you , the half hitches seems to be the problem.

 

I think the profile of the half hitches been taller that the actual Mid knot ( round / flat ) is what might be causing the issues. This is just a thought , I am no expert.

Once all the double wraps are secured & the leader is tightly tied , then practicably the knot is done .

 

The half hitches I believe are just for a smoother transition from the leader end to the main line ( braid ) , correct ? how about if instead of half hitches you tied like a 10 wraps uni knot or any other low profile knot to create a smooth transition.

 

Good thread Kil. :thumbsu:  



#8 Kilsong

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:05 AM

Anthony,

I tried to find better knot than half hitch knot, but I couldn't find it yet. After I make 

I am going to test my Mid Knot using lighter for bluefin popping in June and July. 



#9 Milkman

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:40 PM

Kil, do you finish with a uni knot? Always do that after half hitching on FG and PR and it locks up the knot a bit more...

#10 Kilsong

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:00 PM

Kil, do you finish with a uni knot? Always do that after half hitching on FG and PR and it locks up the knot a bit more...

yes, I do. In fact, I have two - three unit knots to finish after I saw Japanese fishermen do. 



#11 bnz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Watch how this guy finishes his PR knot (starting at 2:15 in the video) with a uni and this is how I finish mine as well, except I lock mine with one half hitch before starting. He does burn his but I don't with mine. No problems so far.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99KSrXdpu4


Edited by bnz, 10 April 2013 - 04:29 PM.


#12 Mark Harris

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:13 AM

Burning a blob is vital Kil to keep that last half hitch in place.  Once one slips it is a dangerous slope.  It is such a simple and effective solution.  And the Bouz line cutter or a cigar lighter is the best option.



#13 Kilsong

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

Mark,

I tested Mid Knot for casting with short leader line so that the Mid Knot doesn't go through guides on Southern Oman trip and I didn't see any problem.
As I said, I caught hundreds of tuna on jigs using Mid Knot without burning end mono, but I didn't have single issue.

So I convinced that the halt hitch knot on the mono line get slipped when the knot goes through guides while casting hard.

Bouz Line cutters are on the way to us from Japan. I had to ask to ship them by ocean freight because gas inside the lighter is not allowed for air freight.

#14 DH10

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:27 AM

When using these super complicated knots, what do you do when you get cut off?

 

I know I have a hard enough time tying a bimini/Bristol on a pitching boat!  I can't imagine tying this knot in the midst of a wide open bite.....



#15 Mark Harris

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:54 PM

Hey Kil, for sure I think any friction knot is effected by hard casting all day and you are correct. The stresses on the knot are very different between casting and jigging.

 

Well done on getting the Bouz line cutters - it is nice piece of kit.

 

DH10, the simplest of the 3 commonly used friction knots is the FG Knot (it does not need a bobbin, nor necessarily any tension points other than your two hands). I would actually say that an FG Knot is easier to tie than a Bimini on a boat.  Once you get used to it, you should be able to tie a an FG Knot in 5 minutes, even on a boat.


Edited by Mark Harris, 12 April 2013 - 07:54 PM.


#16 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:08 PM

When using these super complicated knots, what do you do when you get cut off?

 

I know I have a hard enough time tying a bimini/Bristol on a pitching boat!  I can't imagine tying this knot in the midst of a wide open bite.....

Have a back knot that you can tie in seconds without the fancy tools. I pre tie all my PR's at home , if I get cut off in the midst of a good bite them reverse albright is my knot.

If the bite is sporadic then I sit down on the deck , light a smoke , grab a beer & tie another PR



#17 Capt. Aki

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:12 AM

DH10,

The best option is to have spare spool ready with leader tied on.



#18 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:20 AM

you might need more than one spool  :)



#19 Capt. Aki

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:40 AM

Oh yes.  Lot more than just one spool along with bunch of spare tackles.;)



#20 Mark Harris

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

That is most certainly the best way to go :)

 

 

DH10,

The best option is to have spare spool ready with leader tied on.



#21 DH10

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:00 PM

That is most certainly the best way to go :)

Ahh, the truth emerges!

 

I was in Panama in March, and we were in a mad tuna AND pargo boil that led to every rod we had set up getting snarled, broken off etc!  It was probably for the best, since it was getting late and we had non-stop hookups for 1.5 hours, but leaving that was hard!

 

What do you all think of this technique?  I can tie a bimini on the boat in a flash....

 



#22 Mark Harris

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 01:05 AM

For some reason I can't see that video DH10. It is a strange title though as no FG knot needs any tools (other than scissors or other cutter)!

 

So much depends on how fast you can tie a knot that you are confident with. As I said prevously I can do a FG Knot very quickly after years of using nothing else for casting connections.  That being said I still carry lots of sparespools already rigged. I don't want to miss even five minutes of casting when the bite is on.


Edited by Mark Harris, 18 April 2013 - 03:43 AM.


#23 Kilsong

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:20 AM













#24 Mark Harris

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

The Japanese do love their gadgets.  All those are completely unnecessary!



#25 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:12 PM

The Japanese do love their gadgets.  All those are completely unnecessary!

 

Yes....but , you-ll look very professional if you have them :lolu:  



#26 Guest_Anthony_*

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:15 PM

Ahh, the truth emerges!

 

I was in Panama in March, and we were in a mad tuna AND pargo boil that led to every rod we had set up getting snarled, broken off etc!  It was probably for the best, since it was getting late and we had non-stop hookups for 1.5 hours, but leaving that was hard!

 

What do you all think of this technique?  I can tie a bimini on the boat in a flash....

 

 

mmmm ! Ok without all the talk , prep & what not , whats the actual real time to tie the FG ? 3 minutes ? way to long then , just my opinion 

 

check this one out , no bliss just quick enough

 


Edited by Anthony, 23 April 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#27 Mark Harris

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

The guy in the 2nd video pretty much does it the way I would except there is no way you can pull the knot tight enough with bare hands - needs gloves.

 

But the way he does it is great - just needs the half hitches to finish off which is not shown on the video.

 

I estimate that with a bit of time for putting gloves on and off and the half hitches -3 minutes.



#28 jerome the belgian

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 01:43 AM

Better than knot : loop to loop connection :-)

 

we fished in Oman with Tuf 100 lbs spicable ( spicable lenght 6 Feet, like that braid 100+100 = 200 lbs) and loop connection mono 200 lbs , 100% strong : the only failure we had who ring grommet who breaks with the pressure of 14-15 kg drag

 

Ed seemed very interesting by spicable braid






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